Tenney Mountain

[thetrailboss]

I think that if they get the snowmaking going this season, get the other basic services established, have a good season in terms of snow and business, then I can see it moving ahead nicely and eventually getting a new HSQ.

They certainly seem to have reignited a local following. I know that some think Mike was odd, but I give him credit for jumpstarting the bar and grill and getting folks to start coming back to that for entertainment and some limited off-season events. He posted a fair number of pics and vids showing a decent crowd in the bar and grill and from my 30,000 foot view of the reviews, the food was not bad.

 

[IceEidolon]

Hypothetically, could they build a pulse lift instead of a HSQ for Hornet? I know it's supposed to be a compromise between line speed and mechanical complexity, maybe a pulse quad is the sweet spot if they don't expect enough business to support a HSQ but need the faster lift speed to be viable...

 

[thetrailboss]

Hypothetically, could they build a pulse lift instead of a HSQ for Hornet? I know it's supposed to be a compromise between line speed and mechanical complexity, maybe a pulse quad is the sweet spot if they don't expect enough business to support a HSQ but need the faster lift speed to be viable...

I've heard of pulse gondolas, but how does a pulse quad work? I still see it as being slow (if it is like a pulse gondola).

 

[IceEidolon]

Wish Bone – Snow Valley, AB

Visit the post for more.

liftblog.com

Pulse Lifts

These days building a detachable lift means a capital investment of at least $3 million plus around $100,000 in annual maintenance. A so-called ‘pulse’ lift offers the speed of a detachable system…

liftblog.com

Detach speed but lower riders per hour - seems like a possible solution, IF the business case is an uncrowded value play. If they expect to fill every chair on a HSQ on busy days, a pulse lift isn't suitable.

 

[Newpylong]

If they can't fill every chair (or close to it) on a good weekend winter day the place isn't going to be viable. They certainly won't ever get a ROI on a new lift of any type...

 

[2planks2coasts]

If they can't fill every chair (or close to it) on a good weekend winter day the place isn't going to be viable. They certainly won't ever get a ROI on a new lift of any type...

Which isn't going to happen for a while. Thus keeping costs low while incrementally building attendance is key. A mid station seems like a viable option though, as does a surface lift to let people lap parts of the upper mountain without riding the chair all the way up again. A HSQ (2x the purchase & installation cost of a FG and 5x the maintenance & operation cost by one estimate I've read) won't bring in nearly as many new customers as other, lower cost interventions. Not that snowmaking is cheap of course, but unlike a HSQ, there's no real alternative to that expense.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

For a mountain coming back from the dead, and without the draw of top tier terrain, you HAVE to first establish a reputation in the market that you'll have reliable conditions. That is job #1 - any speculation about $30M lodges or $10M HSQs is a fool's errand until that is established. You build a house from the foundation up, and in New England, especially Southern NH, that foundation starts with snowmaking and grooming.

Places like MRG, Smuggs and Magic are quite literally the exceptions (due to terrain) that prove the rule.

 

[Newpylong]

Which isn't going to happen for a while. Thus keeping costs low while incrementally building attendance is key. A mid station seems like a viable option though, as does a surface lift to let people lap parts of the upper mountain without riding the chair all the way up again. A HSQ (2x the purchase & installation cost of a FG and 5x the maintenance & operation cost by one estimate I've read) won't bring in nearly as many new customers as other, lower cost interventions. Not that snowmaking is cheap of course, but unlike a HSQ, there's no real alternative to that expense.

What other "lower cost" interventions (besides dependable conditions with good snowmaking) would bring in more incremental new customers than a detachable lift? If there is a cheaper silver bullet I think many operators would be most interested.

We're arguing in circles here. It's evident they are only considering a detach at this point and there are many prerequisites prior to moving from considering to execution. I certainly am not advocating to put in a detach prior to those being met.

IMHO A mid-station and or an upper mountain surface lift would be pricey side shows. If any money is spent on lifts prior to a detach it's gotta be towards a more effective learning center.

 

[djd66]

Its not my money, but a detach would certainly attract people - me included.

It have been many years since I skied Tenney and I can't remember the terrain. Is there anything decent terrain wise?

 

[Newpylong]

My description of the terrain would enjoyable and "has character", but not difficult. I would liken it to Brodie (compared to Jiminy) for those that skied it back in the day.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

What other "lower cost" interventions (besides dependable conditions with good snowmaking) would bring in more incremental new customers than a detachable lift? If there is a cheaper silver bullet I think many operators would be most interested.

We're arguing in circles here. It's evident they are only considering a detach at this point and there are many prerequisites prior to moving from considering to execution. I certainly am not advocating to put in a detach prior to those being met.

IMHO A mid-station and or an upper mountain surface lift would be pricey side shows. If any money is spent on lifts prior to a detach it's gotta be towards a more effective learning center.

I'd think the night skiing idea would fit that description. Between local resident population and Plymouth State, the market is there. Every ski area looks like a hero the day after a 12" storm, but to be a sustainable business you have to have that reliable base of local customers who will show up on a wet or frigid Tuesday night.

 

[2planks2coasts]

Its not my money, but a detach would certainly attract people - me included.

It have been many years since I skied Tenney and I can't remember the terrain. Is there anything decent terrain wise?

My description of the terrain would enjoyable and "has character", but not difficult. I would liken it to Brodie (compared to Jiminy) for those that skied it back in the day.

Agreed. It's what some might call "classic New England". Twisty trails with lots of rollers and drops. Little in the way of serious steeps. The runs immediately adjacent to the summit lift provide the longest uninterrupted fall line skiing on the mountain. It's just fun. Skied there 10x this season. It's never gonna compete with the other I-93 resorts, but for a sub $500 season pass, it doesn't need to.

 

[2planks2coasts]

I'd think the night skiing idea would fit that description. Between local resident population and Plymouth State, the market is there. Every ski area looks like a hero the day after a 12" storm, but to be a sustainable business you have to have that reliable base of local customers who will show up on a wet or frigid Tuesday night.

Yep. Night skiing, particularly the runs off the Eclipse triple chair, would build visitation. Slight tweaks to the base area like another set of stairs from the base of the Hornet double up to the lodge and a better track from the lodge to the triple would make the skier experience a bit better. Local race events would provide exposure to younger skiers and riders who don't know about the resort. A strong and focused marketing plan highlighting accessibility and value. Snowmaking is far and away the most important thing though.

ETA:. There's a diehard group of uphillers there. The trail system layout lends itself to skinning. Less lift ticket revenue but more bar revenue expanding that crowd.

 

[Smellytele]

Yep. Night skiing, particularly the runs off the Eclipse triple chair, would build visitation. Slight tweaks to the base area like another set of stairs from the base of the Hornet double up to the lodge and a better track from the lodge to the triple would make the skier experience a bit better. Local race events would provide exposure to younger skiers and riders who don't know about the resort. A strong and focused marketing plan highlighting accessibility and value. Snowmaking is far and away the most important thing though.

ETA:. There's a diehard group of uphillers there. The trail system layout lends itself to skinning. Less lift ticket revenue but more bar revenue expanding that crowd.

Uphill at tenney from what I remember was one of the more expensive uphill areas in NH.

 

[thetrailboss]

Wish Bone – Snow Valley, AB

Visit the post for more.

liftblog.com

Pulse Lifts

These days building a detachable lift means a capital investment of at least $3 million plus around $100,000 in annual maintenance. A so-called ‘pulse’ lift offers the speed of a detachable system…

liftblog.com

Detach speed but lower riders per hour - seems like a possible solution, IF the business case is an uncrowded value play. If they expect to fill every chair on a HSQ on busy days, a pulse lift isn't suitable.

I don't really see that as a viable option. I've only seen it in use as a shuttle lift and not a main lift.

 

[2planks2coasts]

I don't really see that as a viable option. I've only seen it in use as a shuttle lift and not a main lift.

I've ridden a few pulse gondolas, but honestly had no idea that pulse chairlifts were a thing.

 

[IceEidolon]

If they can't fill every chair (or close to it) on a good weekend winter day the place isn't going to be viable. They certainly won't ever get a ROI on a new lift of any type...

It does seem like a fairly narrow capacity window.

If they can only do one lift install near term, FGQ on the Hornet line or a new lift on the abandoned pod above Eclipse, alongside supporting snowmaking upgrades?

 

[Newpylong]

They would have to replace Hornet 100%..can't add unneeded capacity with a mile long 60 year old chair still standing.

 

[Smellytele]

a new lift on the abandoned pod above Eclipse, alongside supporting snowmaking upgrades?

Abandoned? You talking the glade skiing that you get to off the Hornet?

 

[deadheadskier]

Abandoned? You talking the glade skiing that you get to off the Hornet?

There were trails cut above those glades and a proposed Upper Mountain lift that never happened

Tenney Mountain

13 ski trail maps for Tenney Mountain at Skimap.org

skimap.org

That actually would be a pretty good pod. It would be nice to be able to lap those trails and glades without having to go to the base. They could also claim more vertical. Maybe 1500'? If they did that and added a mid station to the Hornet, maybe they'd be onto something without adding a HSQ