VT Digger Reports on EB-5 "Saving" Sugarbush

[deadheadskier]

I'm not sure defining a "need" is so cut and dry. What Jay has done with all of these luxuries is that they've created insurance against bad weather such that guests keep coming back even if they don't experience the great snow Jay is famous for. The water park, hockey rink and movie theater all help fill rooms just like the skiing product; in some ways more so as they're available 12 months out of the year. It's the lodging and year jobs it creates that satisfies EB-5 requirements; not base lodges and other skiing specific niceties. Jay's just been loosey goosey with their reported jobs creation numbers. They really haven't invested in the skiing product much during all this time. That's where they'd get in the most trouble. One chair, a carpet lift and a bit of snowmaking. No new Bonnie, no West Bowl, none of the sexy stuff a skier only is looking for.

Maybe they've also committed fraud and pocketed some investor money as some suggest. We'll find out.

I don't think one can categorically state that what Sugarbush did was okay, and what Jay did wasn't......yet. Different scales and a lot different needs because of location, customer base and history of what existed before program participation. Jury is still out. Both mountains are clearly more competitive and much larger economic engines in the their communities than what they were. Hard for me to not view that as a positive for both of them.

 

[dlague]

Jay needed to build out. There is nothing around there apres ski. Even Newport which is a ways away does not have much. Jay Peak has been sold over and over again as many ski areas have until more investments were made. Many do not agree how it was built out and many locals argue that the jobs created are junk. However, talk to those working there and you will see that many are not locals but moved there for the job. Why is that job ok for them but considered crap by locals? I always wondered. Jay Peak has been trying to build a village and it is working. Likewise many locals do more at Jay Peak than ever before - that was and is need. Otherwise the option is to fail. Who knows how the investors will get treated and what effect that will have on Jay. As for Sugarbush, they went for smaller dollars and it seems to have paid off. However, there is not a whole lot to do at sugarbush apres ski.


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[VTKilarney]

VT Digger Reports on EB-5 "Saving" Sugarbush

From what I've seen at Jay, locals have the low paying jobs and people from outside of Orleans county have the bulk of the higher paying jobs. I'm not faulting their hiring decisions, but it just is what it is.

 

[Newpylong]

How many high speed detachable chairlifts did Stratton have when Claneil sold? I'll save you the time, zero. American Express six pack wasn't installed until 1995.

I think I said what south was lacking was snowmaking. So your point is what?

You just made my point for me - Sugarbush was not in a position to gain market share back due to lack of flashy lifts and snowmaking. This was a time when places were investing bigtime - Stratton with the 6 pack, Killington did Skyeship the year before, Ram's Head and Needles the year after, etc. Mount Snow did both of their quads the year after, etc.

 

[HowieT2]

Howie,

I don't see any way how everything Jay has built can be considered a need. They just come up with things to build there now just to get free money. No ski are needs a movie theatre. Would a theatre be nice, yes, but it isn't needed, it just a luxury item for the resort.

I dont disagree. My personal opinion is that its crazy what theyre doing up there. but maybe they'll fill the place up, make money and be able to pay back the eb5 investors. Who knows.

 

[VTKilarney]

I dont disagree. My personal opinion is that its crazy what theyre doing up there. but maybe they'll fill the place up, make money and be able to pay back the eb5 investors. Who knows.

My anecdotal observation is that summer crowds are WAY below what they need to be in order for the resort to turn a profit during the summer months.

 

[cdskier]

However, there is not a whole lot to do at sugarbush apres ski.

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I must be in the minority that thinks a few good bars, restaurants and stores is all you need.

 

[deadheadskier]

Works for me. Sugarloaf has even less Apres spots and I always have a blast there. I've had plenty of Apres fun in the MRV

 

[thetrailboss]

I understand. I believe however that the only thing the govt. need be demanding and insuring compliance with, are the obligations of the recipients of the eb5 money to actually develop the projects and provide the jobs required. That would necessarily address those scams.

Good to see that we agree.

 

[HowieT2]

I must be in the minority that thinks a few good bars, restaurants and stores is all you need.

I'm with you. although I do think updating the "Skatium" would be a good thing. looks like a prison now. Saw renderings last summer of a renovation but i dont know what the status is.

 

[HowieT2]

Good to see that we agree.

for sure, but can we have a ski off nonetheless?

 

[HowieT2]

Works for me. Sugarloaf has even less Apres spots and I always have a blast there. I've had plenty of Apres fun in the MRV

I think, and I might be totally off about this, that the "nightlife" is more a product of the crowd at the mtn, than the actual physical infrastructure. I'm not sure that killington has that much more in terms of cool bars than say sugarbush, but it has a lot more 20-30 somethings coming up from NYC metro to party. whereas SB gets more families and the singles from burlington go back there after skiing.

 

[deadheadskier]

Also depends on locals. You need a thriving younger ski bum scene. Stowe used to have that, but the area isn't drawing the same fresh out of college crowd happy to live in a crappy apartment with five roommates for many years. It used to be that way in the 90s, then it got too expensive.

 

[steamboat1]

I must be in the minority that thinks a few good bars, restaurants and stores is all you need.

You & me both. Don't really go out much after skiing anymore. My Wobbly Barn/Pickle Barrel days ended a long time ago. Mostly either cook in or pick up take out before heading back to the lodge to hunker down for the evening.

 

[thetrailboss]

for sure, but can we have a ski off nonetheless?

:lol: Yes, I think we need an official EB-5 ski off!

 

[Tin]

My Wobbly Barn/Pickle Barrel days ended a long time ago.

Mine ended an hour in. Most overpriced crap ever. Do people not know what good drinks or food taste like? If they were good I could justify, but Applebees serves better tasting stuff.

 

[steamboat1]

but Applebees serves better tasting stuff.

The absolute worst meal I ever had in my life was in the Applebees in Rutland.

 

[dlague]

You & me both. Don't really go out much after skiing anymore. My Wobbly Barn/Pickle Barrel days ended a long time ago. Mostly either cook in or pick up take out before heading back to the lodge to hunker down for the evening.

My wife and I went to the Village at Sugarbush and there was one bar with one pool table that was dark and cool to hang at but other than that nada.

 

[cdskier]

My wife and I went to the Village at Sugarbush and there was one bar with one pool table that was dark and cool to hang at but other than that nada.

Castlerock sometimes has bands at night. Away from the base area there's Localfolk (often has music), Hyde Away, Mad River Barn, and Slidebrook Tavern (sometimes has music) for bars. Mad River Barn has quite a few games in the upstairs room if that's what you're looking for.

 

[thetrailboss]

Castlerock sometimes has bands at night. Away from the base area there's Localfolk (often has music), Hyde Away, Mad River Barn, and Slidebrook Tavern (sometimes has music) for bars. Mad River Barn has quite a few games in the upstairs room if that's what you're looking for.

I think the point is that in the MRV there are night options, but not as many as other areas and you do have to look for them. When I skied SB I was often too damn tired after skiing to go out at night....